Episode 001: Founder-to-Founder: The Raw Realities of Entrepreneurship
Summary
In this unique episode of "The Straight Goods Podcast," host Geoff Best introduces a new format designed to provide unfiltered, anonymous insights from seasoned entrepreneurs. Joined by an experienced founder, the conversation delves deep into the trials, tribulations, and triumphs of starting, running, and scaling a business.
Geoff’s guest shares his journey, highlighting the importance of mentorship, the challenges of partnerships, and the impact of personal relationships on business. He discusses his initial inspirations, the hard lessons learned from failed ventures, and the pivotal role of self-awareness and trusted advisors in achieving success.
Listeners will gain valuable advice on handling conflict, making tough decisions, and maintaining a balance between business and personal life. Join Geoff and his guest for an honest, founder-to-founder discussion that reveals the often-hidden struggles of entrepreneurship and provides practical advice for navigating the complex world of business.
Don’t worry about sounding professional. Sound like you. There are over 1.5 billion websites out there, but your story is what’s going to separate this one from the rest. If you read the words back and don’t hear your own voice in your head, that’s a good sign you still have more work to do.
Be clear, be confident and don’t overthink it. The beauty of your story is that it’s going to continue to evolve and your site can evolve with it. Your goal should be to make it feel right for right now. Later will take care of itself. It always does.
Transcript
Geoff Best Host
00:00
Well, welcome to the Straight Goods podcast and, as you can all see, this is a very different format.
00:07
I can see my guest well, but I know you folks can't. So the reason for this is to give some straight, honest, founder-to-founder discussion and the stuff that you wouldn't otherwise be able to say. Running an active business, a business that you started, if you didn't have anonymity, it would be things that maybe you can't you know would impact on your ability to sell or the value or your staffing or whatever. So the whole idea of this is, as a truly generous give back sort of from founders to founders kind of concept.
00:49
My friend is going to be talking about some of the trials and tribulations of starting, running and scaling a business and share these lessons with everybody who's going to be watching this. So that's a bit of a different format that we're taking on this one and this is the first one, so thank you very, very much for being part of it. So, as a start and we're going to try and keep it in generalities as much as we can around who you are and what your business is, just to keep the veil on that but why don't you tell us a bit first about what you do in a general sense.
Guest Guest
01:27
Well, I've always said that I'm kind of like a student of the human condition, we'll call it. I'm an entrepreneur not formally educated, not formally educated. A lot of my experiences growing up probably shaped on how I perceive people. I had a lot of good experiences growing up with a mentor or another entrepreneur or a person that was kind of at that young age in your life that, hey, I want to be kind of like that person. So, um, yeah, it was like started out that way and I never, ever had, uh, you say uh, somebody, an angel investor or anybody like that that would be able to come in. What's your ideas?
Geoff Best Host
02:21
I was just about to say my name, but what's your idea and what do you want to do? So yeah, so you talk about someone who is an inspiration. What was that like? Like was it another person in business that you looked to and said this is something I want to do?
Guest Guest
02:36
Well, I met that person at a young age and I didn't know what kind of business I wanted to be in. But I looked at the traits that he portrayed and I mean was like 16, 17 years old when I met that person and uh, he uh always shared his he's like five, six years older than me. He always shared what he want, what his big goal was, and he always said when he was running this person's business that where we worked at at that point and it was a multinational franchise, I'll say that much when I met him and he was always telling me yeah, you know, I want to be the best that I can, but practice with other people's money. That's interesting. When he went through all the training and then I went through the training through that multinational company and he started his own business and then it wasn't much longer after that that I was working for him again.
Geoff Best Host
03:32
Interesting, interesting, but you didn't have as I didn't like, I really didn't have any mentorship sort of jumping in to business and you were the same.
Guest Guest
03:42
Yeah, no, very much the same. Until I got into my 20s I didn't know fully that. First of all, I didn't have any money. So to have an idea, it was like paycheck to paycheck, even working at a multinational, successful company. I didn't get there until I was at it, probably in my mid-20s, late-20s. What about?
Geoff Best Host
04:04
now I get a great value today out of um sort of, I'd say, peer mentoring. You know we've got I'm a member of a couple. You know business groups. You know, however formal or informal, but you know a chance to really talk through a bit about like being in business. It just ain't easy, you know, and you run up against things and it doesn't matter how long you're in it. You always come up with something new that you've never seen before. So do you have a network now, like do you lean on others in sort of in the business community for advice or for gut-checking ideas or anything like that?
Guest Guest
04:39
Well, you're one of them. Oh, you're one of them. All the way when we were I'd probably say in the last 20 years of my business that I have now I always had I'll call them trusted advisors or people that I could talk to, not really formally part of like any tech group or anything like that but I've always had. In the last five years I hired a business coach. But she's not just a business coach, she's a leadership. So how to succession plan for myself as well as where I am now? I've always learned from my experiences of failures. Before I got into my last business, that kind of set the path forward to take on what I just did and where I am now. So, yeah, I have an advisor. I also have a. I call him my paid best friend.
05:36
He's a therapist, but he's also a relationship person, so I use him for conflict relationship with my relationship with my, my wife to. Even when I had a business partner, I used him to be able to help uh me navigate through the ups and flows of being a partner with somebody and how to communicate better and the challenges. So, like I said, paid best friend.
Geoff Best Host
06:02
That's fantastic. I love that term. I love that term. You opened up on about five different topics there that I think all worthy of some further discussion, and I'm a big believer, I think, that having somebody who doesn't have a dog in the fight, you know who can look impartially, because it's so easy, I find, anyway, that you know you can get overwhelmed by circumstance and be, you know, either too wound up, too wound into it, too angry at a circumstance or sometimes maybe not taking it seriously enough. It's not enough on your radar and to have somebody come in and say, hey, this is important, or you know chill, or here's a strategy you know, around it, the interpersonal stuff is huge. Like, if you have people in business and all of them pretty much do, you've got issues. Was there any great advice that you've been given from these resources that you'd want to pass on to somebody else who will inevitably have issues with partnerships and with staff and articulating strategy, articulating culture, all this kind of stuff. We'll dig more into that, obviously, later too.
Guest Guest
07:13
So one of my well, yes, I remember when I hired a lawyer for my very first business partnership and it kind of stunk a little bit when I got in and obviously when you get into that first business, this is the price.
07:30
And my lawyer said, hey, he says you can do it, but I want you to sign a USA, but under no circumstances are you to ever be a director of that company. Based on what I see and what's going on From a liability standpoint, from a liability standpoint, from a liability standpoint, yeah, and the reason he said that was because 50-50 is the deal and what I learned when I got that legal advice was ultimately 50-50 has its strengths, but ultimately you better know what you're going into. And, being my first time, I was a little bullish and thinking, oh, I've only been in this industry for two years, I'm going to own this big business and it's got without giving out what kind of business I'm in. But it was like a premier brand, it was like something like it wasn't a small business, it was a pretty big business based on the industry I'm in right uh, single location, right.
08:28
So I did it.
08:30
And when I failed, while we were going through that, I worked my butt off and there was an unactive partner let's say the partner was an accountant and held all the purse strings, yeah, but I was doing all the heavy lifting and all the working.
08:43
So, um, at that point when I decided to walk away, it was uh thankful that I had that advice, because by having that advice made me prepare and I remember when I failed that and walked away, yeah, uh, my, my men, my very first friend that I was talking about early in the business that I was involved in, who I was managing with and for, he says you know what, that's probably the best $50,000 of education that you'll ever have, because if you didn't do that you wouldn't be where you are today, because if it was barely making it, you'd still be stuck or just chugging along. So having the courage to actually go through that experience was awesome day, because if it was barely making it, you'd still be stuck or just chugging along. So having the courage to actually go through that experience was awesome yeah, it's a very good point.
Geoff Best Host
09:30
People partnerships are always fraught with with additional risk. Like it can be the best possible thing that you have. Like you can offset each other's skills and and fill the blanks in where you can't. And you know it's easy to want to form partnerships like small P partnerships, because it's scary, it's intimidating. Going in business and to have somebody sort of beside you is compelling, right. But it's very easy to jump in and especially in these 50-50 arrangements which is common, and not think through enough about what happens. If there's problems because you're deadlocked right, like if you have a majority position, you can at least force it if you have to under the blanket of minority shareholder protection that we have in this country. But it's very easy to find yourself at loggerheads with somebody and have a frustrated partnership from a legal standpoint where now the business is going to suffer because you just can't move past it right. So you know that's sound advice. I'm glad you got that at the time.
Guest Guest
10:38
As you're just talking about that, I've had probably four business situations because you're familiar with your business dealings with me in the past with your other business. When I had that, everyone always says so what's your exit strategy? Whether you have to stay or you have to get that other person, what is always your exit strategy? When I left that one and then I got into business with the last one, that conversation bodes well when it comes to having the rug pulled out from underneath you when you think you have a the most perfect plan and then all of a sudden, somebody. It was a blind spot. So you can only learn from those mistakes and I remember um so many sleepless nights, actually literally losing sleep over it. Yeah, for at that period, and this was um.
Geoff Best Host
11:34
Again, we'll say this we'll say this delicately, because others will see this um, but this was basically a partnership dispute, right?
Guest Guest
11:41
is this what you're referring to, where there was sort of a uh a uh, an issue with the exit of of one of your business, yeah, yeah. So that one happened when it was, uh, I'd started the I'm the founder of this business and I brought in a partner thinking you know, if I'm going to exit strategy, you can't do it all on your own. But I learned from that very first one that we were talking about, where we were 50 50 and I walked away is that ultimately, whenever you're into partnership, even if you think you're in full control yeah, um, and you can be and you do have all the best intentions, um, and you finally make all those decisions to the end, depending on how you run that partnership that one was where we couldn't be partners anymore. One of us had to go. So that partnership got pushed and you know, I have to think about that partner at that point in time.
12:38
I do have a little bit of a bias. But I also recognize one thing is this partner that I had was very influential in my company, yeah, in good and had a huge reason for the success. But at the same time, when it comes to the end of the road, when you can't be partners anymore, one of you has to go and ultimately whoever holds um has the responsibility of taking the business over and forward right yeah, so is there on this, because this is a very, very common thing.
Geoff Best Host
13:12
I've had partnership uh issues before and again, not not necessarily even throwing shade at the at the person, but being in business is not always right for somebody, somebody who's been an employee and then moves into you know, an ownership kind of profile is not always for everybody and you know the business how it was, as businesses naturally evolve and change over time. They don't always evolve and change over time in alignment with a person. Evolve and change over time in alignment with a person. So you know, with that as sort of you know, putting a nicer frame around somebody who needs to exit a business, you know, I found it always the documentation that you have like you talked about a USA earlier unanimous shareholders agreement, they're kind of going into business. It's very easy to sort of gloss over this stuff, I find. But when you end up in a dispute like you do go back to the contract right, and your rights that you've put in, baked in up front, are become really, really important. Would you, would you echo that Like?
14:19
would you agree with that, that idea that and offer that as advice, I guess, to someone coming up to considering a partnership.
Guest Guest
14:25
Yeah, I would, and, and the challenges, even part of that whole experience. When I was doing that, I mean, I was 95% and that person came in at five and then I financed that person and then we were looking at actually going multinational with my business and I had a big uh, a person that approached me in wanting to be partners with me. And when I learned, at that point in time, when we were going to be 50-50, but we had this 5% minority partner, all of a sudden he says I'm not interested, troy. And then finally I said what do you mean? And he says, well, think about it. He says we have a person that is the tail and me and you. That person has more power than either, or because that person can right. So he says, well, I'm not interested.
15:15
So at that point in time I said okay, and that was a lesson to be learned. I think the partnerships, ultimately somebody has to be in charge. There's no such thing as I would never, ever want anybody to think that they should go in 50-50. Ultimately, somebody has to make the decision and the only way that you would go 50-50 is if everything's outlined already and you got your money up front and you're not doing any vendor financing or anything like that 100% One of the lessons that I've taken now and I've learned it again and again the hard way for me to do something where there's other ownership in the business.
Geoff Best Host
16:03
I insist that we are on equal financial footing Because you know you're talking about a scenario where you know you're building incentives in to help. You know, bring along a person and give them a vested interest and hopefully maybe even have a transition into you know, an exit for you that this person could step in right.
Guest Guest
16:21
That was the plan, yeah.
Geoff Best Host
16:23
And. But it's hard when you've got somebody who doesn't have the same skin in the game that you do. Wouldn't you agree? Like priorities are different and it's damn easy to walk away and just say you know what? It's all paper money anyway, I'll just be done because I don't like this anymore. Yeah, like is that. Is that your experience? Oh, it totally is. I know, I know it is.
GuestGuest
16:47
Thanks for leading that one, um, you know, honestly sounds. It's not that it's ruthless, but it's in a sense that it's uh, when you have a million dollars and you are this is where it's at and you're asking somebody, let's say you're going to sell your business for, or you started, you're the founder, or you're going to do this, a million dollars is what it takes to get started. Yeah, and every business that I've ever started and I've had a couple now and I had one failure is I always believe in money and you don't pull any money out until it's profitable and then you can make better business decisions. But when you have a partner that can't keep up, we'll say or meet the needs, financial needs to be able to do that. Like, for example, if me and you were in a partnership, it's going to million dollars.
17:42
Start, you put half a million, I put half a million in, but you can't afford not to be paid. But I could. Yeah, that's when it gets frigging pardon my language fucking awkward, because then now, how do you uh, justify that? And even though that the business can't make it so and you're only human, it's it's.
Geoff BestHost
18:09
It's hard to not um become resentful. You know, even if it's a legit like. I had a situation early on and we had, you know, some industrial warehouses and my partner in it was. There was a bit of an imbalance at the time and it came to it like this thing was sitting empty, we had to a $10,000 a month burn and there came a point where it became a challenge to both put the same checks in and it all worked out like you know, I covered more for a time and then, you know, we ended up selling the property and we all equalized it Like it wasn't a big but it could have got awkward and it's not comfortable.
GuestGuest
18:39
Especially didn't that not put a kind of a little bit of a strain in your relationship.
Geoff BestHost
18:44
It did. It did Absolutely, and you know it's. You got to sometimes remind yourself. You know, especially with friends, you know which is another whole dynamic around partnerships. I'm kind of misusing the word partnership. I'll just say it's like a fellow shareholder in the business, not necessarily just in a partnership structure, probably more than incorporated structure.
GuestGuest
19:04
Well, and from my very first business experience, when we're talking about that part, I decided at that point that first failure, that partnership, that I would never be in business with anybody that didn't partake in the business. And having that thought always. So it's not like somebody could say, hey, can I invest or anything. And I'll give you an example. It was that person that was my mentor, or the guy I was working for. When I went to him I had no money. I had 50 grand in my bank and I needed another $70,000. And I went to the banks, couldn't get any more money and this is $70,000, and I had to go to him to get the money and I thank God he did this to me. He says I was going to say my name again, but he says you know what?
19:57
And I says you want to be a partner, I'll let you invest in it, I'll work in this. And he said me this is weird. He said me he says I'm not interested in being partnership with you, just make sure I get my goddamn money back.
Geoff BestHost
20:14
Right.
GuestGuest
20:15
And that's it. And if you're doing all the work, then you should get all the reward. But just make sure I'm not interested. It's not a charity, he says, and that was my first lesson of what a part of having a solid partner would look like. Or someone with that business acronym saying, hey, I don't want to be your partner, that's it. So that's when I anytime I got into business with anybody, or when I brought that other person in. They have to participate. It got weird when you start having to finance everything and then you have to ask for a rate of return. When you start having to finance everything and then you have to ask for a rate of return when you're financing somebody, it's lost opportunity too. So go to the bank, get your own money and write me the check. Or, if I'm going to do it, this is what I'm going to charge you for interest. And that made it awkward too.
Geoff BestHost
21:06
Yeah, yeah, no, I believe it. So if you had to roll that up into one soundbite and that made it awkward too yeah, yeah, no, I believe it. So if you had to roll that up into one soundbite to give to an aspiring entrepreneur who's maybe looking at this and saying I don't know if I can do this without somebody else, and maybe it is financially, maybe it's a little more parody, maybe it's a little more lopsided, but is there one soundbite you'd give as advice around bringing other people into a business with you that you would, uh, you'd want to impart?
GuestGuest
21:36
Yeah, the one thing that I would always say is know where you stand and understand the power dynamics of what could happen if you don't have all the resources to be able to make this succeed. And if you do bring in somebody, make sure it has a sound exit strategy and the rules of engagement are very clear. And I think that any partnership that I've seen because I've actually had a lot of my employees, their husbands and partners and I love mentoring that kind of shit that shit fills my cup when it comes to don't fuck up.
22:15
Let me tell you what my experience is is to actually make sure they have money in the game and don't compromise your livelihood, because know what your worth is, but also understand the person that's lending you the money. They have an expectation too, and if you're mature enough to handle that and know what the rules of engagement are, you should be okay. But always keep clear, open lines of communication. But one person has to be fucking in charge. Ship needs a captain.
Geoff BestHost
22:45
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, like I, I was in in in business with my, my partner, my, my life partner, and she was, uh, you know she's brilliant and and, uh, it was a legal business.
22:59
You know she was a lawyer, I was not, and the dynamics of that and this is going to circle back. You talked about your paid best friend and the impact on your personal life. Um, you know, for me it had a lot of challenges that sort of came out of it that never would have expected. You know, like get along well in, you know, in other ways there's lots of there's mutual respect and but it was just be this natural tendency to step on each other's toes, you know, and without malice, but it happened so much that it got fatiguing, you know, and especially in my case, because she was a lawyer, I wasn't and I was a non-lawyer in I use my favorite term non-lawyer in a legal business, so she could do everything I couldn't do, you know, parts of it and it became an issue and it's hard to not let your business bleed into your home life in some way, shape or form.
GuestGuest
23:52
Well, I'm married with my partner, my wife, um, with our business, so I know exactly how you feel about that and that also steps into um. She comes from a corporate world, right? Yeah, and when we were going through our challenges, when I let this other partner go, or I shouldn't let her, when we decided to divorce each other, my wife got involved in it. There is totally a different expectation or thought process of being an entrepreneur versus somebody that's worked corporate with people with 2,000 people in there and you call legal for this and yet we need to get this vetted this way and that, and her with her background, I'll just say it she's an HR professional in that corporate world.
24:44
Let me tell you, when it comes to severance packages or disciplinary action, there's a different high level in a corporate world versus a small entrepreneurial 60 to 100 employee business. Yeah, so it was very hard on our marriage and I also think it was also to say you feel a little bit disadvantaged. I could see from your situation because, even with my partner in my other business that we were talking about, I am the founder and I'm also the person that does what all the other employees do, without giving up what kind of business I'm in. My business partner didn't do what I did. They were just managing and they were operations Same with my wife, so they always felt like they could never get that credibility to actually run the business for me, or with me.
25:38
So you don't feel equal when, for example, your partner was being a lawyer, right, yeah, yeah, because she's the relationship builder and you're kind of like getting the deals done, right.
Geoff BestHost
25:50
Yeah, yeah, cause she's the relationship builder and you're kind of like getting the deals done Right, yeah, yeah, and and it's um, you know I. I'm gratified to hear, though, that you've you, you put a mechanism in place to to deal with it like we did. And and there's, uh, you know I mentioned it before sometimes to have somebody who's hasn't got a dog in the fight, who can just come in and say and you, hopefully you get somebody pragmatic enough and experienced enough to say you know what, on this one, maybe take a knee on this issue, this isn't one, so it shouldn't be a hill to die on. Right, everyone take a breath right, like you're all friends here, um, or conversely, saying, yeah, you know what?
26:23
this is a a toxic behavior and you guys need to change it and I, I got some really good advice that way I know, and it really helped, so I hope you did too. And you're still. You're still married.
GuestGuest
26:35
So I'm a work in progress. You know, honestly, like um, I don't think that I would have uh, this experience now with my marriage. I think that what happens is you learn how to uh. I think that what happens is you learn how to disagree. You can see the things that causes that stress. It actually shows how strong our marriage is to be able to resolve and work through that versus we had a pretty cushy life. I did my thing and she did her thing, and then when we had to do this, it actually was a real test. So, yeah, I think we're always going to be working at it, but there's certain things that can't be unsaid. There's certain things that can't be undone. It's just organizing those thoughts and being able to recognize that it's not that bad. There's other shit going on.
Geoff BestHost
27:28
Right, yeah, talking about sort of the home front and the impact on it, you know, would you recommend to any aspiring entrepreneur what sort of safety net would you put around protecting your family from what can be a negative of being in business and the stress that comes from business? Oh shit, it's funny you say that. Easy question, just to say it, right.
GuestGuest
27:50
That's a good question. That is because I remember when it came down to it and I'll be really specific about this tone when our partnership ended with that other partner and my wife decided to join the company and there were some hiccups there and it was just right. During COVID, my wife joined the company company and there were some hiccups there, and it was just right. During COVID, my wife joined the company right. And, uh, I'm always entrepreneurs are always, uh, consummate optimists yeah, I never fail, I'll make it work and work.
28:21
And my wife, coming from a conservative, um, balanced checkbook, always being the person that likes everything, and I'm'm like honey, we're good, we're good and we're pushing it. And she made a promise. I think it's really important if you're in business as an entrepreneur with your family and they're really heavily weighted into that. She says I do not want our financial retirement to be in jeopardy. And, to be really clear, I was going to say my name. There's no pulling money out of our house line of credit or any of our financials together, and then I had to make it really clear.
29:03
Well, honey, I said, this business has given us a lot of these things and also this business has a lot of assets in that, yeah, but it was really clear that you cannot if you want to protect your family and your integrity. Um, I can hear my uh best friend saying stop trying to manage her, but be honest with her and be forthright, because I got to a point where I didn't think she could handle the truth and I didn't. When you start writing checks for 40 000 bucks yeah, in a month loss, yeah, to make payroll, you're, oh honey, I just put in 30, oh, yeah, that's big numbers where she was like almost throwing up in her mouth, yeah, and then I'm like still going honey, we got this, we got this, don't worry.
Geoff BestHost
29:52
We got this.
GuestGuest
29:53
Well then, all of a sudden, it hit a wall where she was literally on the verge of very upset, yeah, very insecure, and then started losing trust.
Geoff BestHost
30:06
Right.
GuestGuest
30:07
Because I was managing her Right.
Geoff BestHost
30:09
Right and people can feel it right. A partner, someone who knows you, they'll know when you're giving a half an answer right and it's hard to say this is dire. But to bring them in and and you know you raise a good point. I've been in the same. Where we've in business like there's ebbs and flows and scaling is fucking expensive, right and hard on cash flow, and you know there was times where you know I was doing, coming from a finance background, probably the least qualified person to do it, but I sort of put the CFO hat on. You know, and I'm talking about the law firm and you know I had access to that information at my fingertips and she sort of you know again, she's practicing law and so she relied on me to kind of feed that she's in your lane, yeah.
30:54
And I said let's try as we might to stay there, and it was like a best practice to try and just keep that information flowing. It's like this is where we are. You're going to get this report, whether you want it or not. You know here's what's happening and yeah, not. You know here's what's happening and yeah, we're short cash flow this month, but here's the forecast. This is what we need to do. This is the likelihood we're going to do what we need to do here's. Here's what we have on receivables. Here's, like you know that full disclosure piece. So how did you train them?
GuestGuest
31:20
I didn't that. This is where my big fail was with my wife was how did I present that information? And it was almost like you can't handle the truth, honey kind of.
Geoff BestHost
31:31
Thing.
GuestGuest
31:31
So I had a hard time with that, in the sense of her saying enough. So as an entrepreneur, it was like we can't take this any further.
Geoff BestHost
31:44
So I kind of started not telling her Right yeah, which is you're doing the pressure on you to keep a business afloat. You know, you see these people every day. You see their face. You know that they're paying their rent and their mortgages based on what you do and the decisions you make. That's a profound pressure to say you know what, yes, we'll just. I have faith in this, I have faith in me, like this is why we'll get through. I'll just just got to just feed it for just a little while longer. Right, and sunny days will come, and and sometimes they don't, right, it's almost almost like being in Vegas, like you got to set your limit and say, okay, I've lost this much. This is where it's time to go to a show, or just go to my room and suck my thumb. I guess it's not working out.
GuestGuest
32:29
If I was 30 years old self and jump all the way up to like 55, 56 self and said, hey, I'm going to be writing checks to make the payroll, or I'm going to be doing this, or I just lost $200,000 here, or whatever, I probably would never have become an entrepreneur Interesting At that 25-year-old self, and will call myself too stupid to know better at 25, saying I'm going to open a business, uh, I don't think I would have had the stomach to be able to do that. And I think that part of when I first started in my small business entrepreneurship was uh, one at a time, one at a time, one at a time until one was too much. And then you keep staying on that treadmill. And now we're going to go 30 years later and we talked about scaling down or making a call to make some cuts when I had to close one of my businesses.
33:28
Just so everyone knows, I have a multi-location business so I had to take the business for restructuring to make the other ones profitable. It was just irresponsible for me to keep one open. That affected my whole company. So I had to scale down, right. But if I knew that I would be building a business that's worth a couple million dollars worth of cash. To be 25-year-old self, I probably wouldn't have became an entrepreneur, yeah, which I'm actually grateful that I was too stupid to know better to be able to be where I am now you have to be and I almost have a bit of guilt around.
Geoff BestHost
34:09
You know this, this podcast and the tool that we've developed, that sort of helps an entrepreneur kind of open their eyes fully to to the different risks and fit and stuff and how important that is. And I think you do need like, if I knew everything that was involved in it, I wouldn't have done it. Yeah, you know, and it's um, you need a uh, you need boundless energy and a healthy level of naivete. I think, yes, right To get in, and I don't want to crush that in people because you can. Also, I don't want people to be scared away from it because it is very, very redeeming and it is the only path for a lot of us.
GuestGuest
34:46
But but you know what, though? The only path for a lot of us. But you know what, though Young and dumb, and your ego gets in at 25, 26 years old, and the one thing I know about the entrepreneurial spirit is we don't listen to what the naysayers say. 00.01.
Geoff BestHost
35:02
Yeah, that's good.
GuestGuest
35:03
Yeah, 00.02. They don't, we don't Like. That's them, that's not me. I'm going to be able to do this. Yeah, because I'm going to will it. You know I'm shit, this is nothing. I'm not, you know, and I think also by having some failures and challenges, I know a little bit how you grew up and I know how I grew up. Resiliency came with lots of challenges growing up, lots of challenges growing up. And I'll tell you, if I had an Ivy League education and that's not I probably wouldn't be as successful because I wouldn't be grinding and working until I made it.
Geoff BestHost
35:37
That's true. That's true. There's the, the, the school of hard knocks. You know it's sort of a trait, you know the way it's talked about. But, um, you know, I know and again not throwing shade on anybody, but I do know some, some people that just are there. They've got, you know, the ships are burned right. They've got to make it work, um, where they are. And, uh, compared to somebody who can sort of step in and out, maybe step out of the corporate world into it, or step out of academia, dip a toe, step back in, you have that safety net. Um, I think you, I think you just naturally will fight harder when you got nowhere else to go. You know, and I worked in the corporate world, as you know, and and, uh, you know, the best thing I ever did was get out of it and but I knew I couldn't go back, so that was that, was that.
GuestGuest
36:23
Yeah, I don't, and I want I want to also say one thing is because, as I'm hearing what you're saying and the people that may be listening to this podcast, or other entrepreneurs, whether it's like a $300 million startup or an IT or whatever, I mean I only can speak to my experience as a small business entrepreneur. Entrepreneur, um, my education level, just to be clear, was never, ever, um, learning how to write code or a marketing degree or anything like that. My, my, I'm a, I'm in the people business and my asset is, or my business runs on time and relationship building. So that was my strength as a person, which I don't think I would have got that in school. Yeah, but I believe also that if you're a smart entrepreneur and you have good entrepreneur skills, you'll gravitate to pulling people that will help you succeed in your journey, for sure, and different businesses demand different domain expertise.
Geoff BestHost
37:23
You know my law firm. We needed a really really good lawyer to head it. You know, for a lot of reasons Um and uh. You know you have in your business. You have, you know, best in class domain expertise as well, which is also really, really important from a credibility standpoint. Um, and your ability to articulate and train and bring people along like all of that stuff is all part of it, which isn't always learned out of a textbook.
GuestGuest
37:51
No, without giving what my business is also is, I can't say. One thing is being an entrepreneur is recognizing that you can't be everything to everyone, and through starting out with that very small business that I had was started out with one employee, two employees to going up to my first location and expanding, is I learned that I was not good at payroll and I didn't want to spend five hours doing payroll and writing checks and bookkeeping. That I hired the right people to help me and then being able to train and hire and having a leadership group that is task oriented, yeah, right. So I always knew we'll probably go into that later is I always knew that my, my capacity was always based on being a big idea guy? Yeah, but it's not that I just don't do very well with the details, for sure, and that's let's flesh that out it's a good.
Geoff BestHost
38:50
It's a good segue because I think, being a certain level of self-awareness, right of looking at yourself and what is your personal balance sheet, what do you bring Like?
39:01
There's the practical stuff, there's money and time and domain expertise and that sort of thing, but then there's everything else, the softer stuff that is makes a business, defines a business, and I think a level of self-awareness around that is really important. I've always found, because you can't do it all, you shouldn't do it all, especially if you want to scale. So in that broader team that you mentioned around you, of having both structuring your internal setup and your internal management in a certain way, but also sort of the secondary and tertiary support that you have around you, like you know your other resources, like what would for you, what is the ideal team kind of look like surrounding you so that you can do your unique ability? You know your thing that you're the best at, so you can ideally just do that or do as much as possible and have the rest filled. So for you, how does that look in terms of your broader network?
GuestGuest
39:57
So it looks a lot different than it did five years ago. Five years ago it was I'm going to hand the keys over and they're you know all the money I might have to finance a little bit of them, but I get to just do what I do and then I'm just going to like ride off into the sunset. Right Reality kicked in and I became aware through having a right. After COVID, I hired a business coach and we talked about what is my business really worth? What is it going to be when I want to leave? And one thing in my succession plan I became quite aware of is my business is only operating and surviving because I'm in it and running it, yeah.
40:37
So what does it look like for me now? Is I hired a director of operations? I hired somebody. That director of operations will be eventually the VP of operations, vp of the company, and then I have an operations manager and that director hired. It's not going to be me picking and handing and doing that, because I think what I've learned the biggest thing now is allowing this person to make some mistakes and we collaborate and giving them the space to make decisions. And when I did hire somebody for this role, this person isn't even in my industry. I went and I hired somebody that was had I don't have time to teach you how to be a visionary or a managing of an organization and and working out the minutiae of what our industry is. So I hired him and he was put on a really quick school of hard knocks Jump in, answer the phones, get right in there, show up maintenance person, whatever it might be, without saying what my business is again.
41:50
He learned really quickly, so I know I got the right guy and now my job is I'm his advisor. That's what I am right now. Oh, perfect.
Geoff BestHost
42:00
Perfect and because we are different, to be the founder and creator of a business like it doesn't in many ways, lend itself to being a master of all detail. And you know, one of the things we were talking about before that we were both aware of, we talked about sort of the ADD kind of ADHD kind of how that factors into entrepreneurship, and the stat that I read was someone with ADHD or ADD is 400 times more likely to start a business, right, and there was this whole. It was a very interesting articles like we're the last of the, the hunter gatherer kind of DNA, right, and that's where we get which you know, sometimes the, the, the ability to, to want to hunt and grow and and all of this sort of thing is is what serves us well and I think it serves businesses well. It's a two-edged sword, of course, but you said it's okay to talk to you Like this is something that you also.
42:59
You know I'm certainly an ADD guy in every way and part of how I have built my team around me is to have people who are really really good at you know project management and you know and doing the details. I always said if I'm chasing details, something is really, really wrong, but for yourself. There's a great likelihood of the entrepreneurs or prospective entrepreneurs that are listening to us right now that they are also the same. Whether they realize it or not, this is a very, very common thread. Is there any advice around that that you would want to impart?
GuestGuest
43:36
Well, thank you for announcing to the world that I'm ADHD.
43:39
You said I could, I'm just shitting with you, bud, just shitting with you. You know what, what I would say. I never actually knew I had this until about three years ago. Yeah, interesting. Um, my anxiety has always been at a high level two, three. I always thought it was seasonal. But my ADHD, my anxiety is actually uh, until I got diagnosed and got medicated. Thank God for Vyvanse. Um, I was uh. My anxiety was always a seven, eight, nine, and sometimes it got to the point that it was a little bit debilitating and then I'd have to check out for a bit. I think that's probably many times within entrepreneurs when it gets really tough. But since I've diagnosed non-medication, my anxiety sits at a two.
44:31
My capacity of dealing with things. Growing up as a kid and in my experiences of management, as I always was a really shitty assistant manager, I did lousy on the details. You know if I get bored quickly. I also thought I was kind of stupid. But if I'm not interested, I wouldn't be able to do it. Well, I was a big picture thinker, that kind of shit.
44:53
So it totally goes in line with what you said about being an entrepreneur. Yeah, I think you know, with my ADHD is that my best skill in regards to is big ideas. I'm a pretty good cheerleader. I'm like a dog on a bone when I get fixated on certain things. But it's also being able to recognize, now that I have this self-awareness of my ADHD, that I can actually check myself in and not be reactionary, because I think a lot of entrepreneurs or people under certain pressures lose their emotional intelligence. Oh wow, that's a. And then you say shit that you can't take back. But being properly self-awareness, my therapist, my paid best friend, always said when you're doing the medication, you can actually work on the things because you're't, you're taking that handicap away. Yeah, so by having that and being able to work things through, you can be show up better.
Geoff BestHost
46:00
Oh, that's tremendous, and I think that's that's sage advice to the people listening Like you're probably there in some way, shape or form. So you know, learn from, learn from us, learn from us. If you were to go back in time to when you were in your 20s, starting your entrepreneurial journey, what advice would you whisper in your ear?
GuestGuest
46:30
There's the logical brain and then there's the heart.
Geoff BestHost
46:35
Yeah, Well, one of each.
GuestGuest
46:38
whatever you want to do, my logical brain would say do your due diligence and practice with other people's money and make sure to plan as best you can, but don't get stuck too much in the details. My heart brain would say don't look too much into it, just go for it.
Geoff BestHost
47:04
Isn't that interesting.
GuestGuest
47:05
Yeah, that part, but I think that if I was, I can't live in the past. Yeah, I have that coulda, woulda, shoulda. I think that becomes all too paralysis by analysis when you use your past and dwell on that shit that it kind of will affect on how you make decisions in the future. Just be prepared to still make decisions, because I think that's the biggest thing is you get too stuck in the past. It's baggage absolutely.
Geoff Best Host
47:37
I've, uh, and you and you mentioned you talk about making decisions and I know people on and there there's a spectrum around that, probably using that word incorrectly, but, um, there's people I know who will, who will put off, especially the some of the tough ones like staffing problems conflict avoidance, conflict avoidance, exactly Like it's human nature. You want a happy environment and right and you, but you can't put those off.
Guest Guest
48:05
Right have you ever?
Geoff Best Host
48:06
have you ever exited an employee and felt you did it too early?
Guest Guest
48:10
No, never Right, I've always done it. I've always held on too long. Yeah, what I don't like the most in talking about marriage counseling, relationship counseling, whatever it might you want to call it Um, I don't do well based on because of my ADHD, uh, and my anxiety, I think, because now I don't do unresolved very well. I don't do well with things that pile up. I have to fix it. I got to get past it or otherwise I won't let it go until I get resolved. That's probably a downfall, but I say this with all my management team, or even my wife is honey, I got to get this out because if we don't talk about it, it's not going to. I just got to let I need to resolve.
49:00
I need an answer what, how, including not just for myself but for you, because I need to know next steps or what's going to happen. I just can't let it go.
Geoff Best Host
49:09
So that probably comes down to, even with a six month plan, a three year plan, yeah, yeah, and I, I'd, I'd go, I'd go a step further, and I think that that that almost in isolation is is is an essential quality for a successful entrepreneur, right Like being compelled to deal with something that's great that's a great word compelled, because it's like you just can't let it go and it's just, it's in your DNA.
Guest Guest
49:38
You just got to sit there and seek the answer or at least have a decision made. Yeah.
Geoff Best Host
49:45
And when you don't, if you kick things down the road like you get behind the curve and you never catch up, right, like you know, if you leave things unresolved. There's when you deal with something and it's as tough as it is, you know you, you you suck it up and you deal with it. Um, I've always felt like you're making and see if you, if you agree, uh, that sometimes just making a decision is better than not making a decision, even if it's the wrong decision. Right, you're still moving, you're not sort of sitting in lethargy.
Guest Guest
50:12
Yeah, as long as it's not going to, and that's when we were talking about having, as a succession planning or having business partners, one of the partner that I had that when I left, uh, I I wanted that person to make decisions and not have to check in with me. That's one thing that I did well throughout my career is I always allowed people rather than me, providing answers what do you think? And helping them come up with their own decisions rather than me. I don't want people to say I can't do that because I need to check in with me every day, because otherwise I'm not even doing it.
50:49
That's not a good leader, and I've always known that if I'm going to be a good entrepreneur or leader of an organization, I don't need to be in making the decisions.
Geoff Best Host
50:58
Yes, and that freedom to fail. That underlies that giving that gift to your staff, that like make a decision and I'll back you, even if it's the wrong one, because ultimately you're the one who probably is going to have to sweep up the mess. Right. But I think it's again when it's structurally, and maybe better said, practically, something I think is grave importance in a company. Otherwise you will always be the bottleneck on everything you're doing, right, yeah.
Guest Guest
51:30
The last part of what I feel that I probably as an entrepreneur and maybe now talking to my 25 year old self right is hold myself accountable, but also at my journey would also mean hold people accountable to themselves, because I think that all the experiences I entrepreneurs or founders, leaders want to take everybody just garner everybody to come into it. Just follow me up, get on my back.
52:05
And I think more so now, as an entrepreneur or having business partners, is holding even your partner to the same accountability that would you hold to yourself yeah, no, amen, and and I probably I can't remember we hurt ourselves when we don't do that and we think we're doing the, the noble thing right, and it's actually failure. No different to failure to your kids when you're raising a family is hold them accountable and don't save them, yeah, from themselves that you gotta allow them to fail absolutely there's.
Geoff Best Host
52:40
I probably can't give the right attribution if this is a quote that would would otherwise require it, so apologies for that, but this, this great one, comes to mind. That culture is what you put up with right In the business, and and I think that that's sort of the other side of it there's the practical decision-making piece. But then there's also, if you let people get away with whatever, whatever it is like, that ultimately is your culture and you can say it, you can espouse. This is what we believe, is what we believe. But where the rubber hits the road is when you call someone up and say, hey, what you did, that's contrary to what we. We don't do that here, right, and that's. Those are never easy conversations to have, but that's defines culture. It doesn't live on a mission statement that sits on a wall, right.
Guest Guest
53:26
Well, myself, as you're saying, that whole thing there myself over the last four years is, I think, uh, in my organization, talking to my five-year, 52-year-old self yeah, because I'm 57 coming up, but 52 self, don't forget to hold people accountable and I think that that's where, soonest now, that, as I recognize that and that's been in the last year and a half, yeah. Jeff is now recognizing and doing something about it rather than dwelling on what was.
Geoff Best Host
53:59
Yeah yeah, I I think that's, that is gold. Uh, I I think that that one deserves almost to be said again, right like yeah, you you um you're gonna.
Guest Guest
54:09
you're going to fail again. Yeah, as long as it's not crushing, but at 57, you don't want to be failing too many more times.
Geoff Best Host
54:18
Yeah, I think, and that's where experience comes in, right Like I, it's something that's funny I've become since I had an exit, you know, and and by well, I've had a few now, but successful exit of something. I worry more about money now because than I ever did and, um, you know, fear of losing it. Yeah, you know, and uh, you know to your point, like, I'm very conscious of recovery time. Right Like I, I'm the same age as you and and it's, it's um, you know, you not the same stakes, and I think it's almost, it's almost two groups of entrepreneurs. Right, there's the you're, you're 20 and you, just, you're going to just do what you got to do, cause you haven't got the biggest risks. Right, you're going to, you know, you got a whole big runway to recover.
Guest Guest
55:20
So do you ride the same way? Talking about, you ride the same way you did this 20 years ago as you do now. I'm probably, I'm probably worse. That doesn't support the story.
55:24
I, I, I think like now, as I get older, I says I, my level of tolerance for stress is probably getting less now yeah, it was almost ramped up where I was like ultimate, but I think now is I'm mitigating more and it comes even riding motorcycle is, if I get to the point that I'm like, that's like I'm almost like old and old fart right. Yeah, I don't want to be that person that's not paying attention to what's or having the ability to pay attention to what's going around me.
Geoff Best Host
55:48
Yeah, and, and you know I I joke and I probably am because I'm more, I'm more comfortable on it, but, um, but I'm also cognizant, like I don't my my reflexes are still good, but I know that they're not the same as they were.
Guest Guest
56:04
I know my eyes. Is your nerve high still my?
Geoff Best Host
56:05
nerve is still good, yeah, yeah. But I I certainly am conscious Like I don't see as well as I used to. I used to be like 20-10. I used to have amazing eyesight. Now it's like is that red or green? But I think it does transfer readily into business. At different stages of your entrepreneurial journey, you take different. Your appetite for risk is different and your appetite for investment is different.
Guest Guest
56:31
Well, now I'm in We'll call it diversified, but now I'm in real estate, now I'm in P in the people business and then I'm into the standard Everyone else's, you know investment, mutual funds, all that stuff like that. Right, but the risk management for me is is how I can tolerate, cause I obviously I said, when I'm all done, as long as I can meet people, I'll be a walmart greeter for 18 an hour or whatever it is.
Geoff Best Host
57:00
By then and then I can go to sturgis with you and yeah hey, I'm taking three months off.
Guest Guest
57:04
I'm not that important and just be able to go, but ultimately that's going to be like that's. Success to me is being able to still have a purpose, but not being tied to an end result.
Geoff Best Host
57:17
Have a purpose without being tied to an end result. That's gorgeous. That's gorgeous. Is there anything? I think we're kind of getting at about where we should start. We could go on. I could do this all day. I'm so enjoying this and it's, I think, the the bar next door is open so we can go for a beer and lunch. Um, but is there anything? Um, again, a chance to speak in the put in the ear of, of somebody who's contemplating going into business, contemplating expanding their business. Uh, on and on, uh, is there any any words of wisdom that you would want to impart that, um, you wish someone maybe has someone maybe would have told you.
Guest Guest
57:55
Without fear of trying to sound like my business leadership coach which I can hear her talking in a sense is truly depending on where you're at in your idea. Truly make sure that you have your trusted advisors and when I say trusted advisors, people that have done it ahead of you and also aren't emotionally attached to what you want to do, but also will encourage you, because I've also seen it where people use the wrong advisor and then they use the person that isn't their cheerleader or over-prepared or negative towards it. I mean you need a good balance of everything. So you have your emotional advisor, you've got your life partner, whoever that might be, and, as well as just a good, make sure you have a good mentor around you. And last is, have a real honest and when I say honest, a person that can, doesn't hold any, pull any punches, a good accountant yeah, yeah, it's not, and it's always too late and then make sure you have a good lawyer to make sure your ass is covered.
Geoff Best Host
59:17
Amen, yeah, amen, which is exactly that's a perfect way to wrap this. Thank you, cause this is exactly what this is intended to do with this. This podcast and the Frank tool is is meant to do is to is to uh, start those conversations and and and put some ideas out there that maybe otherwise wouldn't be, because I think you probably would have said things today that, if it was you know fully exposed of who you are and you know what your business is and everything, you probably wouldn't have felt so comfortable saying. So I hope that that's a value to the people listening, well as I said that it's okay to fail.
59:55
Yeah.
Guest Guest
59:56
My failure happened early versus happening at the end, and when you fail in the early stages, that just means you're going to have the ability to have better success, and those failures should not be looked upon as I shouldn't do this again. It's how I'm going to do it differently the next time.
Geoff Best Host
01:00:16
Amen, I've learned more failing than I've ever done anything else, so anyway thank you so very, very much for coming out and and and sharing your wisdom. It's been it's been absolutely fantastic. So thank you so much, and and we'll we'll look forward to seeing how this unfolds and what the rest of the world can get out of it. I'm excited to follow this there, jeff.
GuestGuest
01:00:39
It's going to be good, awesome. Thanks so much Okay.
